There are abortion arguments

28th May 2007

posted in Abortion by themaiden |

There are arguments against abortion.

And then there is this.

Intellectuals these days often argue that a woman has a right to choose. Our holy spirit says if she knew what was really going on beneath all surface appearances, a woman would not have a question of choice.

Abortion or Birth? Who Believes There is a Choice?

And the anti-intectuals argue what? “Oh look at the cute baby! Such a cutie. Yes you are.”

Some literary examples?

“Izzum’s ickle heart a-beatin’ so floppity! Um’s own mumsy make ums all right, um’s p’eshus Flopit!” — Booth Tarkington.

“A Peke, the ickle angel pet, wiv his gweat big soulful eyes and his ickle black nosie — oh so ducky-duck!” — George Orwell.

By the way, I really love when people use ‘intellectual’ as a pejorative. The implication is what? That you have no respect for the intellect? For education? For intelligence? For reason? That you have no respect for people who study, think things through, and come to conclusions that don’t meet the heady criteria of “compliance with good ole fashioned gut reaction”?

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This entry was posted on Monday, May 28th, 2007 at 9:55 am and is filed under Abortion. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

1 On May 28th, 2007, JR said:

East Coast, academic elitists, who look down their nose at all the real Americans from the Red states.

2 On May 29th, 2007, Mothandrust said:

I watched an interview with a fundy woman the other night who was defending her non-abortion views. She said abortion was wrong because God doesn’t make mistakes. GRRR

So he (god) sanctions the rapists? stupid christians.

3 On May 29th, 2007, XenoSapien said:

Abortion is murder, plain and simple. For man to kill is murder. For man to believe they have a right to remove a child of God is man acting as God; this is dangerous. The minute a man releases his ‘army’ into the woman, is the minute to believe conception has occured. Every human alive on earth is however old they are, plus nine months.

XenoSapien

4 On May 29th, 2007, themaiden said:

Xeno,

Abortion isn’t murder, plain and simple. There! I win! Nyah, nyah, nyah!

That was fun. Now how about something with some substance?

5 On May 29th, 2007, XenoSapien said:

You win? What do you win? God’s favor? Unless that isn’t what you care for, I suppose hell has plenty of room for you and people that think like that. Killing a fetus and killing a human is the same thing. Life requires a sperm and an egg, and a fetus and human have had the same to make them who they are. Why not take a look at what a fetus looks like after it is brutalized because someone doesn’t want it on the Getting A Fetus In The Mail page on my website.

XenoSapien
Babies As Weapons
http://www.xenosapien.com

6 On May 29th, 2007, themaiden said:

Xeno,

I win a place in hell? That’s rich. Threaten me with the monster under the bed too.

The point of my previous comment was that bare assertions make bad arguments. And bare assertions are all that you’ve offered. You are, proverbially, yelling a screaming your opinion, but you aren’t arguing. Why, exactly, should I care? Opinions are a dime a dozen, as momma used to say. Buck up, man, make an argument.

I don’t happen to think that little balls of goo are human. I said it, therefore I win. That’s how it works right? That seems to be how you think it works, at least when it is you doing the talking. Please though, go ahead and tell me that God is talking through you. That is always very convincing.

Ironically, this post began as a criticism of a bare assertion type of anti-abortion argument, then you jump in and do the same thing– twice now.

Besides, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. You are scorning a lot of women. Therefore, you have more to worry about than I.

7 On May 29th, 2007, XenoSapien said:

I have made the argument, as it appears your comprehension is lacking. I believe abortion to be murder. That is an argument, not an assertion as you put it. I am standing by an opinion and backing it up.

Screaming? No, I’m quite calm, but apologies if my words are loud.

That goo is human, again, my opinion and argument.

An assertion is you thinking ‘God is talking through me’.

I’m not doing to women what they already are doing to themselves. I am merely pointing it out–like the mother of my daughter saying she will mail me a fetus, the pms issue, etc. More women not only read my website, but it is they who understand my position, even when I’ve begged for negative feedback.

It’s amazing how supportive women are to my cause and beliefs. You apparently, must be your own breed. You say you welcome opinions, but attack those who you do not approve of. Sorry I had my readers believing you were open and fair in respects to their own opinion, but I will spare them any more trauma.

XenoSapien

8 On May 29th, 2007, themaiden said:

Xeno,

You’ve made no argument. You’ve made a few assertions, repeatedly. That’s it. If you made some kind of argument somewhere other than in these comments, point me to them. Merely stating “that goo is human” is an opinion. It is not an argument. Arguments require evidence, premises, chains of reasoning… that kind of thing. Just saying something is so is not an argument. It is a bald assertion. You began with a bald assertion. You’ve continued with bald assertions, and now you end with a bald assertion.

I did look at your page, actually. Nice fire and brimstone theme. I didn’t see any arguments there either, but I didn’t dig around much and I won’t– whatever media you have on the page makes it load painfully slow, at least for me, and I have a cable modem.

I did see on your site a description of your situation. I’m sympathetic. I’m not convinced that a woman should be legally allowed to abort a fetus over the protestations of the father, but it is a tricky issue. Would you commit 9 months of resources– energy, discomfort, etc.– to caring for something you do not want? Not to mention the physical pain, the inherent danger of childbirth, and the lifelong physical alterations pregnancy causes. I can’t argue your case without considerable caveat and reservation, but I’m sure things have been difficult for you and I am really sorry about that.

I am sympathetic to argument, Xeno. I am frankly not sympathic to dogmatic opinion, especially when it is followed by threats in the name of God’ mighty magic power.

9 On June 5th, 2007, Lothy said:

I’m with XenoSapien. Having an abortion to me, in the third term or even the first term is murder no matter what way you look at it. becuase granted, the sperm and egg has zero rights because they make up of only a few cells. but a embryo is multicellular and therefore human. so, themaiden, what would you say if someone gave you the choice of being killed or living. just forget about abortions for a second and think, “If I was given the choice of living or being killed, which would I choose?” If you choose living, would you like it if your mother decided to have an abortion with you? I know I sure wouldn’t. and to conclude, A embryo IS a living thing and therefore having an abortion at ANY time would be murder.

10 On June 5th, 2007, themaiden said:

Lothy,

Now that is an argument! “Abortions is murder because…” I disagree but it is an argument. That little “because” makes all the difference.

I disagree with your particular argument because I don’t believe that multicellular == human. That criteria simply isn’t sufficient. If it were, then a lopped off finger would be human and it isn’t. That finger is a collection of human DNA and at least in theory could be coaxed into growing into a full human, but the finger itself isn’t human. There has to be something besides, in addition to, simple multicellularity.

Maybe you could add something like “in the womb” but then artificially inseminated (multicellular) embryos aren’t human. Or maybe you could add something about the progression of human fertilization and development, but artificial insemination and/or other artificial fertility practices might cause problems.

Even so, I don’t think a collection of human cells in the womb is human. Such collections lack pretty much everything that makes us human.

You ask what I would choose, life or death? Let me ask, “What would something choose that hasn’t the ability to choose? That hasn’t even the ability to think?” The question itself doesn’t really make sense does it? If a lump of cells can’t think, can’t choose, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to ask what it would choose. This should give you some clue about where I draw the human/non-human line. It has to do with our brains. Our brains have more to do with our ‘human-ness’ than anything else. Thus, when our brains start to switch on we start to become human.